Definitive Arc Trooper?, Cartoon vs. Alpha (Comic style) Options

[Peregrinus]

Fordo is recognized as being the first red ARC we see in the animated series back in 05 is he not? Although there´s no entry on the Databank for him nor I know of any comic that states this.

Fordo is like the Ewoks. His name is known from associate material, web sites, animators, etc. But his name was never spoken onscreen -- at least in the first series. I haven't seen the second in a little while.

I found an interesting bit I didn´t know about in the starwars databank:

from the starwars databank
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organizat...pers/index.html

"The ARC trooper first appeared in the Star Wars: Republic comics series from Dark Horse Comics, and also can be seen in the Clone Wars animated shorts and Hasbro toyline."

I didn´t know they first appeared on comics! I thought their first appearance was on the animated series.

So Patrick, if it´s on the SW.com Databankit´s considered true? if that´s a slid base for reference then the image that SW as provided there would help a LOT with sorting the Alphas RF and Pauldron right?

Luis is scratching thru all his comics now to find ALL and ANY reference he may find of the ARCs there. He´ll do us the favor of posting them all (or at least the most significant ones) as soon as he can. Thanks in advance Luis!

Let me reiterate -- even though ARCs first appeared in the comics, the animated series was already in production. It just took longer to make. And even though the ARCs first appeared in comics, the animated ARCs trump that, by Legion policy and George's heirarchy, because they were seen in an aired/screened source, and the comics are EU. If they were identical, it wouldn't be a concern, but since the EU (comic) ARCs differ from the canon (series) ARCs, they're already having to play catch-up. Add to that that they only appeared in that story arc of the Clone Wars comics, and you only have one source -- one comic series or story arc, even over multiple issues, only counts as one source.

Going back into matter here. The rule of three states 3 congruent visual references.

we have the comics (pretty extensive actually), we have the toys that Patrick showed us (NICE one there my friend!!), the action figures and I have even a miniature of the Alpha ARC.

...And those action figures and miniatures are supplemental sources, not primary sources. We only have one source for the Alpha-style ARCs -- the Clone Wars comics. This is why this costume has had such a hard time getting approved.

The only problem the cartoon ARCs had to face, by comparison, was how to "correct" the cartoon-y style into a more realistic style. And the pauldron is the only sticking point there, as personal opinion differs so widely as to what was "intended" by the animators.

--Jonah

[Dargas-1845]

Great guys!!!

I´m starting to see light here! wohoo!

The shots of the alpha ARC are awesome! sadly we can´t see the kama and the way he solved them up.
the ARC kama Alphas use in the comics appears to have the front lower tips clamped to the trooper´s legs with 3 to 4 "blue clamps" to the shin armor.

anyway we´ll see about that when we have the scans from luis.


Going to the Red ARC Captain. If the rule states that TV and movies take precedence over any other media and Therefore should be regarded as true cannon, then the animated series design for Kama, pauldron, RF, holsters and Guns SHOULD be considered a REAL source for reference, both for a realistic and animated "cartoonish" CRL app.

So, I ask you ner vode, what do you think about me sitting down and creating a realistic interpretation prop of the Red ARC phase 1 generic pauldron? if it looks good we can use it for the CRL.

As such, I offer MY personal ARC trooper build as the exapmple for this "generic" red ARC Captain. we can discuss each part as the build´s WIP grows until we have what we can claim to be an accepted Clone Trooper Detachment Generic ARC Captain to show to the legion council!

what do you say? oooh! I´m thrilled as a kid on his first trip to disneyland!

[Peregrinus]

Going to the Red ARC Captain. If the rule states that TV and movies take precedence over any other media and Therefore should be regarded as true cannon, then the animated series design for Kama, pauldron, RF, holsters and Guns SHOULD be considered a REAL source for reference, both for a realistic and animated "cartoonish" CRL app.

Except that they dn't translate exactly. Similar problem to the current CG animated series -- the characters and armour are very stylised compared to the original "photo-real" exemplars they're based off of in the movies. So do we take Fordo's blasters and pauldron at face value, or assume those to be stylised versions of that they'd "really" look like, too? That debate's been going on since the cartoon first aired, and has ramped up with the new series.

Here's one realistic interpretation of the red ARC Captain, this being Ordo, from the novels, and obviously meant to have the same kit as Fordo from the cartoon...



Compared to...



You can see what they've done to the pauldron there, so which is right?

And as I posted above, Alpha himself is a mess. Here he is from the comics:



...and here he is from an article about him...



Very, very different.

--Jonah

[Dargas-1845]

Except that they dn't translate exactly. Similar problem to the current CG animated series -- the characters and armour are very stylised compared to the original "photo-real" exemplars they're based off of in the movies. So do we take Fordo's blasters and pauldron at face value, or assume those to be stylised versions of that they'd "really" look like, too? That debate's been going on since the cartoon first aired, and has ramped up with the new series.

I would very much do something like that BUT I DO think the realistic interpretation of the guns is still too "cartoonish"

I´ve been planing that Ordo and Fordo´s twin pistols and are mixture of a DC 15 carbine


and Boba Fet´s RoTJ EE-11


if you shorten the cannon barrel you would end with this:


wich is what I believe to be the most realistic we can come to his guns acording to what we see in the series.

About the pauldron

Yes, the artist portrayed Ordo with a EP3 pauldron, wich we pretty much have nailed down BUT what we are trying to figure out is HOW would a realistic interpretation of the phase 1 pauldron used by Fordo in the animated series looks like, yes?

I was looking at clone wars last night and couldn´t help notice commander Bly´s pauldron:


JUST like rex´s.... so, would I do it like this? of like the round, Still "Cartoonish" versions I´ve seen in real life?

Neither of both but a Mixture!

let me get to work and at mid-day I´ll sketch my interpretation (Full color, detailed) of the phase 1 pauldron as I imagine it for you guys to review.

The Kama I believe is pretty standarized so I´ll do it like the one used by Bly, Deviss of the galactic marines.

[crazas]

IMHO the best way to go is to make some differents patters and let the ppl decide, WITH LOGICAL BASIS (not stuff like "this one looks cooler than the other) wich one will be the "the choosen one"
But one way or the other we need to put this stuff on the move.

[Dargas-1845]

That´s the idea Luis

I´ll make my visual representation of the phase 1 pauldron and we´ll start from there, changing it until we get what we all
(or at least the mayority of guys) think is the best aproach to a standarizable realistic phase 1 ARC pauldron.

I'll work on that at lunch time and upload in the afternoon.

[Dargas-1845]

okey...this is a first draft to what i think the animated pauldron should look in a more realistic design.

it´s a fast thing so pelase bear with me...



the idea of it is to maintain the overall shape of the animated design by doing the oval black base (I will use black dynamat foam covered in faux leather) but making the gray "squares" raised over the black leather oval base.

the base will be slightly bigger towards the left side (like an egg but not as exaggerated) and the Red shoulder pad will be a completely separated base with the shape that will be attached, or glued to the black base in place with the red "Square" raised over it.

both the base and the shoulder base will have a black trim very much like the one on the sandtrooper pauldron to protect the neck from the borders and the external border of the pauldrom from damage.

here´s a couple of initial diagrams

the parts diagram


and the merged diagram


I am taking into consideration the method by wich santrooper pauldrons are protected by these trims and trying to centralize a design that looks like the animated but with the familiarity of the know real pauldrons.


let me know what you guys think!

[Peregrinus]

I tentatively agree on the pauldron. But that is exactly the approach I've taken with my blasters. I chopped a couple of Hasbro's hideously undersized DC-15s dart-shooters down, reworked a lot of the detailing, am working on adding a power meter, and the barrel is being custom-built based on the ROTJ Boba Fett EE-3. I'm using the muzzle bit, the under-pipe, and the T-track segments to get just the right look.

So is the EU trying to tell us that these are DC-17's also? That's my biggest peeve so far. The Republic Commando weapon is a DC-17, the small Commanders' sidearms from ROTS and the CG Clone Wars series are DC-17's, and I think I remember seeing this referred to as such also. I'd much prefer this heavy pistol be a DC-15[some letter suffix] to distinguish it from the carbine and long rifle that share the same receiver and alphanumeric code. The Commanders' sidearms can then be DC-16's, and the RepCom weapon can still be the DC-17. One wonders what happened to DC models 1-14...

--Jonah

[Dargas-1845]

yeah the blasters seem to be a DC 15 carbine with an oversized cannon.

the idea might be a coolant system for higher speed firing, like the sandtrooper´s BFG (can´t remember the name now) or meant to sustain higher powered shots...who know´s! but regardless of explanation, Your´s seems to be the right track for this particular design.

when I saw them the first time I couldn´t help thinking Boba Fett gun mated with Jango´s westars and these twins came out!

so i think we´re doing fine at the moment.


Regarding the pauldron, I like the way the design came out, I will need to get the trimming material to start a build of this design to check if the practice is as good as the theory.

I´ll wait for a few more responses on this and I´ll check if it´s worth doing a prop out of this design.

Thanks for the feedback Jonah!

[Clone666]

I made my Fordo blasters with a Hasbro DC-15 and scratch built the barrel. The Hasbro blaster is much smaller than it's supposed to be, so it's great as a hand held blaster.

[Dargas-1845]

OH!!!


DUDE! you are the owner of that magnificent ARC!

I´ve been looking everywhere for you!!! hahahahaha

I wanted so much to ask you for help on the weathering for the armor! i love the way you designed your battledamage and I was hoping you could share a bit of your WIP with me!

I love your weathering on the armor man! and I was actually going to reference my own battledamage on it LOL

mind if I PM you with some questions?

[Clone666]

Sure no problem. The weathering is actually pretty easy, it's mostly drawn on with a silver paint marker.

[Wolters]

The pauldron design looks nice .

Curious to see how it turns out .

Had similar issues with mine. Made a kind of comic one in design , but smaller and left out the weird right shoulder part

[Dargas-1845]

Cool!!! the dimensions are great!


and yeah... the life raft! sometimes we can only wonder what was passing thru the artist´s mind at the time....


thanks on the feedback on the pauldron. that´s two positives on it. I´ll still wait for some more opinions on it before i do the prop (i´m burning to do it) cause i jut don´have the possibility of scrapping material as much as I would like.

the danged dynamat skyrocketed lately....



As soon as I recieve my armor I´ll open a thread with the CRL and the WIP for the red generic ARC.
I think i hijacked the purpose for this thread. Really sorry about that!

but if you guys would want me to, i could create a similar process for the comics alpha pauldron, that way we can keep track of the purpose of the thread and check possibilities of a realistic comic design??

[crazas]

Sorry to tell you Richard, that but this pauldron desing look really bad to me.

j/j LOL looking really good, can you please post dimensions?


Here goes the first set of ref pics from Republic # 50 (not the full comic but just the pages with ARCs on it)

[crazas]

[Dargas-1845]

Luis I really don´t have any meassurements now but on a rough calculation i could say the pauldron would meassure aout 24" long per 16" to 18" wide on the center line.

we´ll have that figured out when we do the rough carboard dummy using your armor as reference.



and we´ll guys there you have the first batch of references.

now it´s just a matter of finding congruent images of front. back, sides and details to match them with any other references you might know about!

[crazas]

Now from Republic 51

[crazas]

[crazas]

From Republic 52